Please take pleasure in this transcript of a special sort of episode, the place I’m within the scorching seat. Dan Harris (@danharris) interviewed me for his present, the 10% Happier with Dan Harris podcast, and I believed it was price sharing right here. We cowl my most up-to-date mind stimulation protocol, the place I’ve landed on optimization, and avoiding traps of self-help. Dan is a superb interviewer. He’s the bestselling creator of 10% Happier and Meditation for Fidgety Skeptics: A ten% Happier How-To E-book.
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Tim Ferriss — Easy methods to Quiet the Ruminative Thoughts, Keep away from Traps of Self-Assist, and Focus in a World of Promiscuous Overcommitment
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Dan Harris: Tim Ferriss, welcome again to the present.
Tim Ferriss: Thanks, sir. Good to be again. Good to see you.
Dan Harris: Likewise. Let me ask you a ridiculously fundamental query, however I believe perhaps deceptively easy. I really by no means know the way to say, is it deceptively advanced or deceptively easy? Anyway, my query actually is how are you? How are you doing today? You’ve publicly sort of gone on a experience speaking about your individual stuff, a few of it fairly heavy. I’m simply curious, how are you?
Tim Ferriss: That could be a each deceptively easy and sophisticated query. My reply fortunately is basically simple, higher than ever. I really feel completely unbelievable. We might dive into how and why that’s the case in case you’d like, however I might say maintaining it quick and candy for the second, I might say unbelievable, higher than ever, thoughts, physique, soul, psycho-emotionally, musculoskeletally, actually feeling holistically superb, optimistic, we might hold going, so I’ll allow you to take that anyplace you’d wish to.
Dan Harris: I like to listen to it. Critically, I actually do love to listen to it and I might be curious to observe up and listen to from you want what has introduced you thus far?
Tim Ferriss: Yeah, I might say just a few issues. So, one of many dangers of private improvement, or let’s simply name it extra broadly self-help, is that it could possibly very simply turn out to be self-infatuation or self-obsession.
Dan Harris: Yeah.
Tim Ferriss: And the counterbalance to that, the guess that offsets it’s it’s quite simple. Relationships, actually doubling down, tripling down on relationships. We’re developed to be a social species, and every time you’re in isolation bodily or just in thought loops in your individual head, that tends to catalyze or worsen tremendously any kind of instability or OCD or despair or anxiousness or fill-in-the-blank psychiatric situation. So, my insurance policies, which had been already in place final time we spoke that I’ve actually continued to speculate into are doing a previous yr evaluate yearly, taking a look at my prime relationships which might be nourishing, energizing power in versus power out, after which blocking out time prematurely for your entire yr for prolonged intervals of time with these folks. Now prolonged will rely in your circumstances. For me, that might be anyplace from an extended weekend to per week spending say 5 days within the wilderness in Montana with a few of my oldest closest associates, et cetera, et cetera.
That may do — to not denigrate remedy in any approach — however typically speaking extra about your issues, if it had been to resolve your whole issues, would’ve labored already. There’s a spot for discuss remedy, however it’s not, nor does it should be the one instrument within the toolkits. So, merely spending time round your foolish, dumb, wonderful associates and laughing, whether or not it’s round a bottle of wine or a meal or a campfire, actually, actually goes a good distance. So, that’s one piece of it. Second piece is to hit a well-recognized thread may be very constant meditation sometimes twice every day, 10 minutes, very, very simple in my case.
After which additionally if we’re going out to the perimeters a bit technologically talking, there’s something that a few of your listeners could have by no means heard of, which is accelerated TMS. TMS stands for transcranial magnetic stimulation. It’s a sort of mind stimulation that has existed for many years, however the {hardware} and the software program, all the things about these applied sciences has improved dramatically within the final 5 to 10 years, notably in I might say the final 5 years.
Because of sure researchers like Nolan Williams out of Stanford, who sadly handed away within the final six months and others. However what accelerated TMS appears like is often as much as, let’s simply name it perhaps one or two years in the past, accelerated TMS takes what you may do in typical TMS over a number of months the place you go in, you’ve gotten this paddle put towards your head, it produces a magnetic discipline that simply to maintain it quite simple, both excites or inhibits sure elements of your mind, sure kinds of circuitry, and that may be utilized to despair, it may be utilized to neurodegenerative illnesses. In actual fact, in some circumstances it may be utilized to anxiousness, OCD and so forth, relying on the goal the place you place these coils. And within the case of accelerated TMS, you’re taking what you may do over three, 4, 5 months and also you’re compressing it into one week.
So, each hour on the hour, 10 hours a day for one week, you’re getting into and getting, let’s simply name it a couple of minutes, three to 9 minutes of pulses in your mind, and you then take 50 minutes off, you return in, you get hit once more, and that has been referred to at the least in a single format. The SAINT Protocol S-A-I-N-T, they’ve shied away from it, but it surely was developed at Stanford and the SAINT Protocol in lots of, let’s name them sufferers, produces 70%, 80% remission of despair. That’s fairly sturdy. It’s not one shot you’re executed. Usually, folks will, let’s simply say do a five-day sequence, then they may go in and have one to three-day booster sequences three months, six months later. And this expertise has super results. I’ve experimented with this during the last handful of years. The primary time I did it, it had close to miraculous outcomes.
I went from having extreme and I’ve been formally identified, so this isn’t simply throwing it round loosely, however reasonable, extreme OCD with numerous rumination. I’m not flipping gentle switches or washing my fingers, however I’ve these ruminative loops that I get caught in. Folks I’m certain some listening can determine with this the place you simply can’t flip off these sort of compulsive thought loops. Could possibly be a grudge, might be a concern, might be one thing you’re planning for, might be a dialog you could have. It simply loops and loops and loops, which causes insomnia, which causes fatigue and simply common sporting down of the system, which ends up in despair. I’ve realized that’s my sequence. It really begins with anxiousness, not despair out of the gate. And I used to be having, let’s simply name it seven, eight out of 10 signs after I went in to the primary remedy, I did a 5 days that’s actually extreme for people who find themselves not clear.
It’s actually, actually extreme. It’s affecting each facet of my life. Had the remedy, there was a delayed onset and even the scientists most concerned with this don’t actually have an amazing clarification for the way or why this may occur, however nothing actually occurred for 2, three weeks after which flipped a swap and had mainly zero anxiousness, zero rumination for, let’s name it three to 4 months. I’ve by no means skilled something prefer it. And that features psychedelic assisted therapies, which I do know very nicely and have supported a number of science underlying. This can be a little bit of an extended reply I notice, however for people who find themselves , I actually advocate the dialog I did with Nolan Williams. Then there are several types of {hardware}, however I attempted it then with boosters a number of instances afterwards. Null impact, zero, didn’t work.
And I began to lose hope once more as a result of I believed this was going to be a replicable, dependable instrument that I might use. I used to be so excited and did a Hail Mary sort of final ditch spherical with the accelerated TMS just lately. I did this in Northern California as a substitute of doing 5 days. So, take note, it’s like, let’s simply name it three months of TMS will get compressed into 5 days. As a substitute of doing 5 days, I did at some point, however I pre-dosed with one thing referred to as D-cycloserine, DCS, because it’s typically referred to within the literature, is in some ways an antiquated antibiotic that was once used for tuberculosis and typically urinary tract infections, which impacts the NMDA receptors in such a approach. I believe it’s a partial antagonist, it is likely to be an agonist, so don’t quote me on it, however the level is that this little drug that isn’t sometimes used anymore is a catalyst for neuroplasticity.
And while you take this beforehand, you are able to do one thing like at some point of accelerated TMS and typically the outcomes are higher than what you beforehand, let’s simply name it seven years in the past, would get from three, 4 months. And I did at some point and Dan this time round, it was similar to a swap mainly the subsequent day and it has now been two or three months, and I don’t wish to set expectations that it’ll be this fashion for everybody. It appears to be notably efficient, sure for despair, but it surely appears to be notably efficient in a really small pattern dimension at this level for anxiousness and OCD and it’s only a completely different life. It’s a completely different life.
So, all of these issues together plus the fundamentals, proper? The sort of fundamental macronutrients of well being, train, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, weight loss program and so forth, are simply doing their job collectively. The final one I’ll throw in after which I’ll shut up as a result of I notice this has was a TED Speak, is intermittent ketosis. So, the ketogenic weight loss program and ketosis total, which may be achieved just a few alternative ways, which I’m in proper now, is completely phenomenal for addressing a number of psychiatric pains, psychoemotional pains which might be failing to be handled by remedy. And there’s one thing referred to as metabolic psychiatry. Chris Palmer out of Harvard and others have checked out this very intently. All proper, thanks for coming to my TED Speak.
Dan Harris: I simply wish to guarantee you, TED Talks are welcome right here. You’re a podcaster, you understand lengthy solutions are positive. So, please delete that sheepishness out of your thoughts.
Tim Ferriss: All proper, will do.
Dan Harris: I’ve one million follow-up questions. Let me simply say simply excessive stage, a special life, these three phrases actually did make me very comfortable to listen to that that’s what’s occurring for you.
Tim Ferriss: Thanks, Dan. Yeah, it’s inconceivable to overstate the distinction between an eight out of 10 of continuous ruminative monkey thoughts with a fixation on issues which might be anxiety-producing to attending to a one or two out of 10. These are two completely different lived experiences. They’re thus far other than one another. It’s actually exceptional.
Dan Harris: So that you talked about transcranial, is it magnetic stimulation, TMS?
Tim Ferriss: Magnetic stimulation. Mm-hmm.
Dan Harris: I’ll drop a hyperlink within the present notes for individuals who wish to take heed to Tim’s dialog with Nolan Williams, with the caveat after all that you just’re not the researcher, the world’s main skilled, you’re extra of the Guinea pig and affected person. However are you able to inform us a bit of bit extra about is TMS extensively out there? Is it a factor that common folks can entry and likewise how robust is the proof?
Tim Ferriss: All proper, I’m comfortable to sort out that with, as you stated, the disclaimer, I’m not a health care provider, nor do I play one on the web, however I do spend a number of time in these waters. So, what I’ll say is that the proof for TMS broadly, they’re many years of proof with completely different purposes of TMS. As we have a look at accelerated TMS, there’s really I might say very compelling physique of proof. As soon as we get into the vanguard, which is all the time dangerous, proper? You don’t essentially wish to be one of many first 100 monkeys shot within the house, however on this specific case, the ache was nice sufficient that I made a decision to opt-in. Then you definately’re moving into the bleeding edge, which is that this D-Cycloserine, DCS plus TMS. That’s very a lot on the outer reaches. I might say at the least based mostly on the clinic that I went to, and perhaps total for all I do know I’m one in all maybe 60 sufferers with OCD/generalized anxiousness dysfunction who’ve been handled that approach. So, it’s a really small quantity.
By way of accessibility, there are, let me begin from the highest in no specific order, however I’ll simply say that there’s a {hardware} stack. So, the 2 firms that I’m most acquainted with, which make {hardware} that I’ve used myself, are BrainsWay, that’s one firm after which one other one is MagVenture. The {hardware} are completely different. I do know individuals who have responded very nicely to each of them, so you’ll be able to vet sure suppliers. I might say not saying that is the one approach, I’m not saying it’s honest maybe there are different applied sciences on the market, however as you’ll anticipate, there’s a good bolus of fly-by-night operations which might be promising miracles and providing “TMS” that’s really not following any protocol in any respect. I believe that’s very unethical, however BrainsWay, MagVenture are two kinds of {hardware} and you then actually wish to look, it’s out there is the quick reply. Accelerated TMS is out there in a number of main cities. It’s not as extensively distributed as I would love as a result of it’s usually not coated by insurance coverage.
Accelerated TMS is mostly not coated. TMS, let’s simply name it typical TMS is usually coated by insurance coverage relying on the indication, however accelerated TMS the place you’re mainly taking per week off work and simply getting your brains up 10 hours a day for 5 days straight, sometimes not coated. And a part of why I’m so excited in regards to the implications if the info scale and are sturdy and present comparable or superior outcomes with this pre-administration of this drug is that the flexibility of anybody, whether or not they’re common, much less financially secure or very well-heeled of taking at some point off of labor, is just not solely logistically a lot simpler in the event that they’re in a position to pre-administer with this DCS, but it surely ought to be a lot inexpensive.
So, I’m hoping even when folks need to pay out of pocket that these breakthroughs, hopefully they’re breakthroughs with mixture therapies of TMS, accelerated TMS and D-cycloserine will actually make it way more extensively out there. That’s my hope. It’s going to take a short while, however it’s out there. I do know there are clinics in, for example, New York, I do know there are clinics in California and Chicago which might be credible. They might exist somewhere else as nicely.
Dan Harris: The opposite factor you talked about when it comes to having a special life is your give attention to relationships, and I noticed myself in that reply. There was a sort of desertification or desertification, I don’t know the way you pronounce it, of my social life for a few years as a result of I used to be such a careerist and such a workaholic, after which in recent times have actually turned that round and I see such an enormous distinction in my psychological well being. I’m curious, you talked about that in recent times you’ve on the prime of yearly you make a plan to see the individuals who, to make use of the cliche fill your cup. Had you gone by means of a interval like I did the place there was a specific amount of isolation or inattention to this lever?
Tim Ferriss: Oh, for certain. There have been just a few completely different causes for that. I don’t know if hindsight’s 20/20, however I believe it’s simpler to see from my vantage level now, and it’s a balancing act as a result of there’s compulsive socializing since you are extremely uncomfortable or afraid of being alone or with your self.
Dan Harris: Sure.
Tim Ferriss: Proper. There’s compulsive socializing to distract your self, like shield your self from your self, which is problematic. After which there’s compulsive isolation and I might say I most likely leaned much more in the direction of the compulsive isolation and there have been two causes for that. One was workaholism again within the day for certain, and I simply felt like I used to be simpler, in a position to produce, extra in a position to give attention to enterprise, funds, no matter it is likely to be in isolation and there is likely to be some fact to that. Then I might say there was additionally this perception that I believe on the time was actually implicit. I don’t assume I explicitly grasped it, which was I’ve written this extremely lengthy essay that perhaps I’ll publish sooner or later, however speaking about a number of the risks of self-help and one in all them is the next, which ties into what we’re speaking about and leaning in the direction of isolation.
This implicit perception or specific that you could work on your self and repair your self and “do the work” and you then’ll be able to work together with different folks and have a big relationship and have interaction with your loved ones if that’s an possibility otherwise you need it to be an possibility, et cetera, et cetera. So, in impact, the analogy that I’ve drawn for some associates is you wish to play soccer, however first you’re going to learn all of the textbooks and get a grasp’s diploma and PhD in soccer and you then’re in a follow dribbling and penalty photographs and so forth by your self and also you wish to turn out to be as excellent a participant as potential by your self earlier than you ever really get on the sector and play the sport of soccer and you can begin to imagine that you just’re taking part in soccer by your self. There’s all the time extra room for enchancment. You’re by no means going to be excellent.
And in case you get caught in that lure, which is the partial lure of self-help, you’re all the time sprucing this self and it could possibly turn out to be this actual recursive harmful lure, this fixation on the self, and also you by no means really fucking play soccer. And at a degree you begin to imagine that you’re, however you’re not. You’re simulating by your self life, however not really partaking with life. And I’ve, who is aware of, perhaps it is a operate of getting older. I don’t assume so essentially, however for therefore many many years I used to be within the chopping fringe of all the things, and I nonetheless am, however I’ve turn out to be equally in issues which have lasted millennia or greater than millennia.
And I like to recommend, in case you’re making an attempt to learn the way the newest LLMs differ from each other, et cetera, you additionally spend a while taking a look at evolutionary biology and learning the issues that we’ve developed to optimize for to expertise. And man, it’s similar to, I believe it was Reaganomics, proper? “It’s the economic system, silly.” It’s the connection, silly, proper? When you don’t have bodily contact with folks, when you have these in actual life bodily experiences, in case you mannequin that in animals, they turn out to be a whole catastrophe. They exhibit the identical kinds of behaviors that we now see spiking in people—anxiousness, despair, lethargy, sitting in a cage, not doing something. We’d like any such contact. So I’d say that I’ve offset the bleeding edge with the very, very tremendous boring fringe of issues which have lasted a very long time.
Dan Harris: Amen.
Developing, Tim talks in regards to the perils of self-op optimization and the key to what we really ought to be optimizing for, the ketogenic weight loss program, utilizing AI as a method of working in your well being. In different phrases, do you have to be speaking to speak field about your medical stuff and way more.
The query I’m about to ask may deliver us again to your unpublished essay in regards to the risks of self-help, however you talked about the phrase optimizing and in some methods I sort of consider you because the proto-optimizer, 4-Hour Workweek.
Tim Ferriss: Positive.
Dan Harris: I’m simply curious the place you’re on self-optimization now?
Tim Ferriss: I might say that I nonetheless give attention to sure areas to optimize. I nonetheless pull sure levers and what I might say I’ve turn out to be significantly better at, and it takes follow, it’s going to sound so rudimentary, is asking merely what are you optimizing for earlier than you optimize? Why are you optimizing? And it’s simple, I might say notably in case you are being formed by social media, which appears to mainly give you the seven deadlier cardinal sins on a silver platter, you get to choose your poison. When you’re being formed by that, then you’ll be able to find yourself optimizing with out a path essentially or questioned. You haven’t interrogated the path. And that might be since you’re following somebody on-line who’s a multi-billion greenback actual property developer/serial entrepreneur/fill within the clean and the chase for cash is on. However that by no means actually will get interrogated. I believe The 4-Hour Workweek does a superb job of breaking down sort of work for work’s sake and cash for cash’s sake.
So, for me, I’ve three family members proper now with quickly progressing Alzheimer’s illness, together with those that don’t have the genotype. If we have a look at say, APOE standing, proper? They’re APOE 3/3, whereas I’m APOE 3/4. So, that’s scary. There are different components to think about for Alzheimer’s. I’m doing issues to attempt to not die from one thing that’s hopefully preventable from the attitude of cardiac well being, cardiovascular well being, after which additionally making an attempt to mitigate my danger of neurodegenerative illness. And that’s why I’m in ketosis proper now, for example, and juries out on a few of this, however very plausibly, there are mechanisms by which going into ketosis on a reasonably common foundation for just a few weeks at a time, let’s simply say in my case two or 3 times a yr could have neuroprotective results, additionally anti-cancer results.
And folks can take heed to my interviews with Dominic D’Agostino, he’s a researcher out of Florida or different folks for the science behind this. And it’s additionally an intervention, and this comes again to your query about optimizing that may be very, very nicely studied within the sense that I’ve very excessive confidence that the draw back danger is low and really manageable, whereas in case you’re simply mainlining GLP-1 agonists, wonderful outcomes that we’ve seen within the literature thus far. However have we had anybody on these for 10, 20 years? No, at the least not 20 years. Perhaps a number of the first monkeys shot within the house like me with the accelerated TMS and the DCS has been on for that time frame. That doesn’t imply don’t use GLP-1 agonists, however perceive that there are a number of unknown unknowns.
With the ketogenic weight loss program, it’s like look, the ketogenic weight loss program in its fashionable incarnation utilizing heavy cream or different kinds of fat, what’s designed for epileptic kids, and this goes again most likely 100 years at this level, if not 100 years near it, and people have the metabolic equipment to enter ketosis and have had that equipment for millennia upon a millennia upon millennia. That might be an instance of one thing that passes the check for me of seemingly credible upside potential, even when we don’t perceive all of the mechanisms, restricted draw back potential that I can offset with sure pharmaceuticals, let’s simply say as a result of I’m a ldl cholesterol hyper-absorber. And okay, nice, we’re going to try this.
Intermittent fasting could be one other one. Throughout ketosis or exterior of ketosis, the one factor that has most dramatically modified my blood exams with respect to particularly insulin sensitivity and avoiding prediabetes, which runs rampant in my household, intermittent fasting. In my case, which means I’m consuming inside an eight-hour window every day. It is likely to be even a bit of shorter, like 2:00 p.m. to eight:00 p.m. and that’s it. I simply don’t eat till 2:00 p.m. or 3:00 p.m. And for some of us, it’s arguably higher for you in case you do like a 12:00 midday to eight:00 p.m. sort of consuming window. It’s additionally referred to as time-restricted feeding. There’s a number of good science for this, not simply in animal fashions, however in people. And the outcomes I’ve seen from which might be simply completely unbelievable and it’s so easy since you don’t really want to alter what you eat, you’re simply altering while you eat.
So, these could be two that individuals may consider as optimizing. After which I’m taking a handful of pharmaceuticals to offset the cardiovascular danger as a result of it doesn’t matter if I’m consuming an all-fat weight loss program, an all-protein weight loss program, a vegan weight loss program, a fill-in-the-blank weight loss program, there are particular biomarkers which might be simply trash, they’re so dangerous. And that appears to be simply straight from the code, straight from DNA. And for that cause, I’m like, “Ah, no spring rooster anymore. You already know what? I believe I’ll simply chew the bullet and take a few of these.”
And when, for example, I discuss with my docs now, the very first thing is when you have a blood check and one thing is out of vary, my suggestion could be earlier than you get on 12 completely different medication to take care of it, and if it’s an emergency, it’s an emergency, but when it’s not an emergency, like your triglycerides are excessive, all proper, nicely, it’s most likely not going to kill you within the subsequent week.
My suggestion could be discuss to your physician, replicate the check, do the check once more the subsequent week, perhaps on a special day and see in case you can replicate the error. As a result of for example, in case you had a heavy weekend of ingesting or a fatty meal the evening earlier than and you then do your blood check at a.m. the subsequent morning fasted, nicely, you may seem like you’re on the highway having coronary heart assault in two months, however really it was simply conduct and weight loss program. So, replicate, replicate, that may be primary. Don’t base the result of the basketball match on one {photograph}. Attempt to get examined extra steadily and take note of while you’re getting examined. So, in case you’re, for example, coming again to the instance I gave, in case you’re taking your check, your blood check on Monday mornings, be sure that your subsequent check that you just’re evaluating it to can also be on Monday morning.
If it’s Wednesday morning, it is likely to be utterly completely different. By the best way, if it’s one thing like cortisol, testosterone, et cetera, this stuff have diurnal cycles. They actually fluctuate all through the day. So, in case you get a check at 8:00 a.m., I’ve seen this with associates of mine, male associates who get a check at like 8:00 a.m. and I’ve to interrogate how they did issues for them to Sherlock Holmes this, however they’re involved about their testosterone ranges or the free testosterone, they take a check at 8:00 a.m., appears nice. They do one other check three months later, six months later, they do it at 11:00 a.m. and it’s 200 factors decrease. Seems loopy. And it’s not loopy. They don’t really — on this case, this man had no drawback. He was about to get on all kinds of hormone substitute remedy and all these things that’s fairly highly effective.
And I stated, “Return, do it at 8:00 a.m. once more, two weeks. Let’s see what occurs.” Guess what? It was the identical as the primary check. So, that’s step primary. After which after I’m taking a look at potential interventions for me, once more, I’m not a health care provider, don’t play one on the web, however the best way I strategy it, and other people get little or no steerage on this, most docs are overstretched, proper? They get 11 minutes per affected person. The best factor for them to do is say, “Look, this man has an issue or this woman has an issue. If we throw these three medication at it, it’s most likely going to repair it. My job, so far as I’m involved, so far as my time permits is to maintain this individual from dying. Okay. Begin these three medication.” However what I’ve tried to do, and I did this with my very own specific cardiac scenario, and I believe Boston Well being is the testing that I did to get a extra granular understanding of issues with a bit of greater decision.
However since I’m a ldl cholesterol hyper-absorber, that informs the kind of drug I’d take doesn’t essentially need to be one thing like a statin. And there have been three or 4 medication that I used to be urged to take and I stated, “What’s the longest research of those with the most effective facet impact profile that’s the most innocuous that I can begin with? And we are able to do one other check in two months. This isn’t an emergency. I’m not about to have a pulmonary embolism or coronary heart assault, don’t have any arteries blocked. What’s it?” And it was in my case, not everyone, one thing referred to as ezetimibe, in any other case often called Zetia, very nicely studied, very nicely tolerated. I stated, “Let me do this in case I’m a hyper responder,” as a result of typically you is usually a hyper responder or a non responder, however I used to be like, “Let me simply attempt it out.”
And statistically not possible that I might be, the physician stated. Nonetheless, tried it. Two months later, retest, guess what? I’m a hyper responder. So, I used to be in a position to make use of the minimal efficient dose for remedy and in the end added another factor, however what number of many years of potential unwanted effects did I simply spare myself by doing mainly like one and a half medication as a substitute of beginning with 4 or 5 and doing that indefinitely from that time ahead?
Dan Harris: Whenever you’re coping with your docs, to what extent do you seek the advice of AI? I’ve discovered personally that speaking to a chatbot has been extremely useful. Now, with the caveat that they hallucinate and so they fuck issues up on a regular basis, and so I’m not taking it as gospel as a result of your chatbot doesn’t become bored with you and doesn’t have an 11-minute window to speak to you. So, you’ll be able to actually spend a number of time, after which what I discovered is that I can then run what I’ve discovered by my docs. Is that an expertise you’ve had?
Tim Ferriss: For certain, and I do use AI and these LLMs lots. What I might say is that in case you’re going to do one thing like that, my suggestion could be, and I’ll give a shameless plug simply because I’m concerned with this firm, I believe they’re doing nice issues, however you would use one thing like a ChatGPT, however there’s some instruments which might be designed for studying. There’s one referred to as Oboe, O-B-O-E.com. Get some fundamental literacy, simply the ABC’s of fundamental medical terminology that may be useful for understanding issues like blood exams. It’s like 100 phrases, perhaps 200 phrases maybe on the very, very tippity prime if you wish to be an overachiever, develop an understanding of the essential vocabulary with the intention to additionally focus on this stuff in shorthand along with your docs. So, when you develop fundamental medical literacy, you would additionally use that to learn to learn research, learn to learn a scientific summary and research. That might be among the finest investments you would ever make along with your time.
Spend a day doing that or two afternoons, holy shit, the ROI, and that’s unbelievable. The variety of medical issues averted, the variety of medical procedures averted. The variety of non-obvious options discovered that my fundamental literacy has helped to resolve for is unbelievable. It doesn’t take very lengthy. So, I might use the instruments to sort of try this first. So, that’ll provide help to with prompts. The solutions are solely going to be pretty much as good as your prompts. When you’ve executed that, then I take advantage of AI on a regular basis and there’s an expression which has been useful for me. I can run fairly scorching. I believe that’s chilled out lots, however I can run fairly scorching. I’m sometimes very impatient. I’ve been since I used to be a toddler, and the expression is don’t attribute to malice what you’ll be able to attribute to incompetence, but it surely goes additional than that.
Simply because any individual doesn’t reply to you, it doesn’t imply it’s a private entrance. Simply because somebody does one thing silly and so they reply one in all your questions out of the three, you emailed them, you may be like, “Ah.” You will get actually wound up. However I might go additional than that, which is don’t attribute to malice or incompetence, what may be defined by a busy schedule. Persons are busy. Everyone’s busy. However what you are able to do is you’ll be able to, after growing this fundamental literacy, you’ll be able to go in after which you’ll be able to ask questions that your docs could not have time for. I’m all the time checking for contraindications between drugs and likewise dietary supplements as a result of docs will miss these. They’ll miss them. They may not miss the obvious, however there are some that aren’t as apparent.
For example, there are sleep drugs like trazodone, which actually have an effect on the serotonergic system. It’s successfully — that is an overstatement, but it surely’s successfully a failed antidepressant. So, in case you don’t know that, and it’s not technically precisely an SSRI, like a Prozac, however there are some similarities, in case you don’t know that since you’re taking a sleep remedy and you then exit and take one thing that’s contraindicated for this complete class of serotonin particular antidepressants, you may get your self into bother.
So, I’ll recurrently test for contraindications. That’s one factor I do. I’ve associates who’ve uploaded their entire genome to a few of these LLMs and ask for insights, and so they’ve recognized some exceptional issues. The danger in doing all of that is that you could be uncover points that in case you are vulnerable to anxiousness, for lots of causes, I’m sort of inoculated towards this with medical stuff as a result of I’ve spent a lot time within the medical and scientific world.
However — offer you an instance, one other factor that I do every year or twice a yr is a full physique MRI, and there are firms that do that. I believe Biograph is the very best stage. Prenuvo can also be fairly good, however I’ve seen a few folks have cancers missed, which isn’t nice. So, in case you get a full physique MRI and you’re over the age of 40, you’re going to seek out one thing, you’re most likely going to seek out some kind of inside cysts.
You may discover in case you had as a buddy of mine did like a small mind aneurysm, you’re most likely going to seek out one thing. And the query is, are you able to deal with that? Are you able to deal with both doing one thing about it, which is presumably why you’re doing it within the first place, or are you able to take care of the overwhelming probability statistically that the physician’s going to say, “Yeah, we discovered X, Y, or Z, you don’t must do something about it? We’ll simply keep watch over it.” Are you going to have the ability to deal with that with out changing into a stress case who’s combing by means of LLMs and WebMD all day making your self loopy? Anyway, I’ll cease there. However sure, I take advantage of these instruments on a regular basis. When you’re going to make use of one instrument, use one other instrument to reality test it. So, in case you get one thing from chat GPT, completely have that factor cross examined by Claude or one other instrument. Don’t belief these instruments with their first solutions.
Dan Harris: Simply on the pan-scan factor, the complete physique MRI, the final word, it is a little bit of an apart, however I’ve found out the final word well being hack, which is marry a health care provider as a result of she will be able to’t get out of right here, and I ask her a number of questions, however she is basically towards these pan-scans for the very cause that you just simply said, which is you’ll find one thing and it could stress you out, or it could put you out there for a process you don’t want. Yeah, so it’s fascinating that there’re completely different POVs on this.
Tim Ferriss: One in all my favourite quotes is “Be suspicious of what you need.” That’s a Rumi quote, going approach again. It’s like we expect that we would like the entire well being info we are able to presumably get, however you need to be a bit of skeptical and suspicious of that in case you’ve by no means handled an enormous quantity of well being info at excessive decision. So, yeah, it’s very private factor. In my case, psychologically, this specific kind of knowledge overwhelm, I’m fairly good with.
Dan Harris: So I requested earlier than about the place you’re with optimizing now and also you stated you’re extra surgical now in the way you optimizing. You listed a bunch of areas together with the way you eat. You probably did put out a podcast in August of 2025 speaking about a few of your rethinking of optimizing. I’d simply be curious, the place are you at with that now?
Tim Ferriss: I believe that optimizing is the how, broadly talking, the way you do one thing. Far more essential than the way you do one thing is the few some issues that you just select within the first place to do. This is applicable to studying rapidly. This is applicable to creating some huge cash. This is applicable to getting in nice form. What you do in a way issues much more than the way you do something. You will get very, very, superb, very optimized, very environment friendly at doing one thing unimportant that doesn’t make it essential, simply makes you superb at doing one thing that you just most likely shouldn’t be doing within the first place. Fashionable productiveness porn is indiscriminate in the way it applies, optimizing to all the things and all the things.
There’s some very humorous morning routines which might be these YouTube movies which might be 4 or 5 hours lengthy of individuals going by means of their day. There’s a degree at which your morning routine simply turns right into a five-hour warm-up for all times every day.
That’s clearly a extremely excessive instance, however for me, in case you had been to have a nanny cam hidden in a bit of stuffed bear in my home, my workplace, this Airbnb the place I’m proper now, and also you watched me on any given day, you’d simply be like, “What is that this man doing?” I imply, it’s like a poorly programmed Roomba. Is that this Blair Witch Mission? It doesn’t appear to be doing a lot work. What’s he doing? And a part of the explanation I can get away with that’s that I believe I’m superb at measuring twice and chopping as soon as. On this context, what which means is I’m spending a number of time taking a look at doing 80/20 evaluation, asking myself, what can I do that isn’t simply replicated by another person that I discover simpler to do than different folks? Which is sort of a shortcut to discovering issues that you just’re good at that you just’ll even have the endurance for as a result of it’s simpler for you otherwise you’re obsessive about it.
Okay, what am I obsessive about? What am I doing in my off hours? Okay, let me attempt to discover a Venn diagram of that after which give attention to these issues. I’ll check it for a really quick time frame to see if primary, I can maintain it. If I’m really pretty much as good as I believed I might be, I should be the most effective on this planet, however higher than common. Then over time, as I’m throwing lots towards the wall after which I’m trying again and saying, “Okay, I attempted these three issues, or I made these 4 investments. I had these assumptions on the time. Did they pan out? Why or why not?” After which course-correcting. They’re really very, very, very, only a few issues it’s a must to get proper, for my part, to have an unbelievable life. You don’t should be nice at a number of issues is my perspective.
It’s like, look, I bear in mind speaking to Jerry Seinfeld and one in all his conclusions was in case you elevate weights and do Transcendental Meditation, that’ll resolve just about all of your issues. And I’m paraphrasing, but it surely wasn’t too removed from that. He’s like, “When you elevate weights and do TM, it is going to resolve most of your issues.” I like that as a result of I believe there’s an entire hell of a number of fact to it that distilling down and it makes life appear way more manageable. If folks really feel like they need to win this tremendous extremely decathlon of life the place as a substitute of 10 sports activities, there are 150 sports activities it’s a must to be good at, who’s going to really surmount that and deal with it nicely? No one. So, for me, it’s like, look, if I needed to simply pull a rabbit out of a hat proper now to choose just a few, I’d be like, “Learn Nonviolent Communication.”
Work out the way to discuss to folks with out sounding overly defensive or aggressive. Life, except we’re going to be a monk of some kind or a nun, and even then most likely, there’s some loopy inside politics on the Hamlet in China, if you understand the abbot, you’re going to need to take care of that abbot. So, work in your communication. Take that very critically because the connective tissue for all the things. Don’t spend money on stuff you don’t perceive. It’s like when unsure, learn just a few books on low-cost index funds and the S&P 500. Go have a look at the graph during the last 5, 10, 15, 20 years.
You may need some arduous dips right here and there, however in case you’re making an attempt to get fancy and spend money on particular person AI shares, like wow, perhaps you’ll choose Amazon and Google out of all of the trash there’s proper now. However most of us, I don’t assume I can do it. Raise weights, attempt to do some zone two coaching the place it’s like you would converse in single sentences, however you don’t actually wish to try this for 30 to 60 minutes just a few instances per week after which don’t eat processed crap, Michael Pollan guidelines. In case your grandmother wouldn’t acknowledge the substances, don’t eat it. Strive that. I believe you’ll do fairly nicely.
Dan Harris: Exhausting to argue with any of that. Developing, Tim talks about why you could say no extra typically and the instruments you want with a purpose to get higher at saying no, doing a digital detox, defanging your careers and a brand new recreation he designed.
One in all your present tasks known as The No E-book, and the guide, as Tim has identified, could come out in 10 years as a result of he’s engaged on it slowly. However he has launched a few chapters on-line and I’ve learn at the least one in all them and it’s actually fascinating. So, earlier than I say an excessive amount of, perhaps you would describe what’s The No E-book and why are you writing it if solely slowly?
Tim Ferriss: Yeah, I’ve an 800-page draft proper now, so it’s going to want to get whittled down a bit of bit. However The No E-book began one thing like, boy, six years in the past the place I observed lots of people in my viewers, my listeners, my readers combating focus and saying no, as a result of essentially the highway to the place you wish to be in life is Wizard of Oz, golden brick highway is saying sure to a couple issues, just a few issues. There are only a few issues it’s a must to get proper. That’s the sure highway and it’s only a few issues. The guardrails for which might be no. You need to say no your entire approach. I used to be penning this guide, I reached out to a bunch of my associates, these are very achieved associates, on this case, to ask them for his or her suggestions. I believed they might assist me write this factor and so they had been like, “Oh, my God, are you kidding me? That is the largest ache in my life. Please ship me an early copy when you’ll be able to.”
So, my associates, there have been just a few who had been really very useful, however the overwhelming majority had been like, “Oh, my God, I believed that life was going to get simpler. It has solely gotten tougher with respect to saying no.” It simply grew to become this large mission. So, I put it on the again burner after which a buddy of mine, Neil Strauss, some folks may acknowledge that title, he’s written one thing like 10 New York Occasions bestsellers and he’s horrible at saying no, it seems. And he was busting my balls about not penning this guide, and he saved harassing me about ending it, and he was really sort of making a kerfuffle over a gaggle dinner after just a few drinks. And I used to be similar to, “Neil, if you wish to learn this guide so badly, why don’t you simply assist me end writing it?”
And I believed that put it to mattress, after which the subsequent day after we all sobered up, he was like, “When you’re critical, why don’t we discuss it?” On the similar time, I used to be noticing with social media, actually with AI, it’s going to get a thousand instances worse. To begin with, the exterior forces that wish to distract you’re virtually unbeatable. It’s unbelievable how refined they’re. Secondly, the best way that permits self interruption and distraction is one thing that humanity has by no means seen earlier than. There may be this unbelievable ache when it comes to paradox of selection. What ought to I do? Who ought to I take heed to? What ought to I watch? What ought to I take note of? That’s fracturing the psyches of individuals. And this, by the best way, geographically, doesn’t discriminate. Economically, it’s like up and down the chain, left, proper, entrance, middle, in all places.
The issues simply appear to be getting larger and greater and greater. So, wrote this guide with Neil mainly as the coed and what’s enjoyable about it, I believe it’s my most entertaining and hilarious guide in a approach, as a result of I’m giving Neil these assignments after which he’ll attempt them, but it surely’ll be passive-aggressive and he’ll screw one up or he’ll really not do 50% of the project after which I’ll observe up and he’ll have all this guilt. However we’ve actual examples of emails he tried to ship, textual content messages he’s making an attempt to ship. He’s making an attempt all the things within the guide and studying as he goes. And I might say there are just a few individuals who have proofread the entire thing and so they’d proofread it like a yr in the past. They’ve come again — and these are followers of my stuff who’ve learn my different books and so they’re like, “This guide has had a huge effect on my life,” and so they nonetheless give me examples.
So to then reply the query of, nicely, what precisely is the guide speaking about? The guide is speaking about the way to say no in a world of compulsive sure, however what’s essential to notice about that is it’s not sufficient to only have a few index playing cards or templates for doing train for saying no. If that may’ve labored, it will’ve labored already. Positive, I may give examples and I give tons of examples of strains which might be useful for saying no. Like Martha Beck, who was Oprah Winfrey’s life coach and was a tremendous lady in her personal proper for lots of causes. She turned me down for one thing and I embody these actual nos as a result of I saved my favourite declines and rejections over 10 years. And so, I share a bunch of them and he or she stated to me, “I actually want I might, however I can’t do the life Tetris.” Do the life Tetris.
And I used to be like, “Wow, that’s so good. You’re not explaining, you’re not defending, you’re not giving a bunch of stuff that somebody can attempt to negotiate round.” It’s similar to, “Hey, I actually want I might. I simply can’t do the life Tetris.” And so, I give examples like that, however that isn’t sufficient. When you begin actually digging into why folks have bother saying no, it’s not solely as a result of they lack templates, it’s due to sure core beliefs, that are ideas we take to be true, to cite Byron Katie and philosophies they’ve that they’re not even conscious of that make it virtually inconceivable to say no. And that would relate to FOMO. It might be associated to a really shortage minded, restricted variety of alternatives, a perception that you would be able to’t generate alternatives your self. You need to look ahead to issues to come back as inbound.
And I hit these very early on, and truly I believe they’re within the pattern chapters that individuals can get if folks go to tim.weblog/nobook. So, tim.weblog is the precise URL/nobook, one phrase. I believe it’s 30 or 40 pages of the guide that may get into this, however a number of of us will say, “I’m too good for that.” Okay, we unpack that as a result of there’s lots there, proper? Have to be good for Tim or fill within the clean as a result of they’re already profitable. I don’t have that luxurious. Proper. Okay, nicely, let’s really double-click on that and begin to interrogate a few of these beliefs and on and on and on. So, saying no in a sturdy approach, actually growing a toolkit, which so far as I’m involved is a self-preservation necessity now. After I first began it six years in the past, I used to be like, “If folks actually wish to get 10X ends in their life and proceed to use the issues from The 4-Hour Workweek, like 80/20, et cetera, they actually need to have a dependable toolkit for saying no.”
However now, taking a look at social media AI, social media enabled AI, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, what it’s going to do to inboxes, messaging, et cetera, like personalization spam, you fill within the clean which might be indistinguishable from people, that is figuring out the way to breathe so far as I’m involved. You need to have a toolkit like this. You’re going to be a roadkill, I believe. That sounds most likely very dramatic, but it surely’s like I’m sitting at Silicon Valley proper now for my first journey right here for just a few weeks in period in like eight years, I’m telling you guys the stuff that’s coming goes to be wonderful. It’s going to be unbelievable. It’s additionally simply going to be catastrophic for lots of minds which might be unprepared with the right toolkits. So, saying no is essential.
Dan Harris: Agreed. And it’s an enormous battle for me. You will have a lovely phrase in your guide, promiscuous over dedication, and I’m actually, actually responsible of that. There’s one other good phrase you say, “The guide will provide help to construct a benevolent phalanx, protecting wall of troops to protect your objectives.” We don’t have time to speak about the entire instruments in there, however is there a instrument specifically you assume that may be very, very highly effective for folks?
Tim Ferriss: Sure, completely. A variety of of us have maybe heard the apocryphal story of — and I believe I give correct credit score within the guide, and this is likely one of the chapters that individuals can get. So, there’s loads of worth that individuals get from the free stuff, however, I imply I’m not even promoting it but, so perhaps I’ll give away extra. One of many culprits, one of many largest causal components for why folks have bother saying no is that they don’t have sufficiently big yeses to defend.
And for example, in case you had a model new youngster, or somebody you really liked, God forbid, had a critical most cancers prognosis, in case you had a tiger by the tail and knew that you just had been engaged on a enterprise, I’m utilizing an excessive instance on goal, they might be price billions of {dollars}. You wouldn’t have bother saying no to issues. So, then we return to the opposite finish of the spectrum, it’s like, nicely, in case you don’t have actually clearly outlined huge yeses that get you excited, which have the potential for enormous payoff, not essentially financially, and you’re sort of looking round your inbox for issues to reply when folks ship you an invitation to a dinner or they wish to have espresso to choose your mind, or it might be something, a dressing up get together you don’t wish to go to, that’s an actual instance from Neil really, and also you’re going to say sure as a result of what’s scarier than having numerous little or promiscuous over dedication, it’s an enormous void.
So, the apocryphal story that I used to be hinting at is the story of the professor who is available in, and I wish to say this was from initially Stephen Covey or perhaps Stephen Covey tailored it. The 7 Habits of Extremely Profitable Folks, I imagine was the guide. It’d’ve been in his instructing and never within the books themselves, however the story is alongside these strains. The professor goes in and he places out on the desk in entrance of the scholars like a big mason jar, a handful of huge rocks, three or 4, a bunch of gravel, after which a bunch of sand. And he challenges the scholars, asks them first how they might match as a lot as potential into the mason jar, and so they attempt completely different approaches. So, in case you put within the sand first, you then get a bit of little bit of gravel in, can’t match the rocks. Effectively, ditto in case you put the gravel in first, you then put within the sand, perhaps you match one rock, and in the end the lesson is it’s a must to put within the huge rocks first, then the gravel suits round that, after which you’ll be able to match within the sand.
Within the model that I inform, I make a modification to that and I say, “It doesn’t matter what they do, there’s nonetheless sand left over on the desk.” And I believe the lesson is in case you’re taking a look at this when it comes to commitments, the massive rocks are these sort of life-changing yeses, the few issues you could shield on that golden highway to get actually the place you wish to be. Then the gravel, to me are the smaller, however important issues you could do. Acquired to file your taxes, obtained to do A, B, or C. After which the sand is all that extraneous stuff, largely distractions. You possibly can match a few of it, however in case you schedule all that stuff first, it’s going to crowd out the gravel or it’s actually on the very least going to crowd out all the massive yeses.
So within the pattern chapters, I simply stroll folks by means of how I do that previous yr evaluate and the way I really choose the massive yeses as a result of the guide on no is equally a guide on — to reply the query, how the hell in a world of infinite choices, in a world of temptation round each nook do you choose just a few issues to give attention to which might be actually excessive leverage? How do you do it? That looks like a easy query, but it surely’s really a really arduous query to reply. So, I might say that in case you’re having bother saying no, beneath that most likely is the truth that you don’t have a sufficiently big yeses which might be price defending. After which there’s lots that leads from that. How do you decide to a sure and insure towards reneging or one thing else? That is meant to be, hopefully all of my books, a really sensible guide.
So what occurs while you screw up? There’s a whole chapter on the way to renegotiate commitments after you’ve gotten already overcommitted. As a result of guess what? When you’ve got that tendency, you’re going to overcommit. You’re going to have a look at your calendar for the subsequent few weeks or month and say, “Good Lord, I’m screwed.” After which what do you do? You’re going to need to have some very probably uncomfortable conversations. So, we’re studying to renegotiate commitments can also be an artwork kind that’s going to be included in it, however essentially it’s huge sure is price defending, I might say is one other one.
And certain, there are many issues that you are able to do that you would do at present. You don’t have to have a look at any of those chapters. I’ve not had social media on my telephone in three years. Why? As a result of I really feel like you’re bringing a butter knife to a gunfight when you have these instruments in your telephone. And if it’s too scary to unplug for 3 years, you don’t need to decide to that. I didn’t to start with. It’s like do a one or two week social media quick, at the least in your telephone. So, I can nonetheless entry social media if I want a success of the heroin, I can nonetheless entry social media by means of my laptop computer, but it surely provides sufficient friction that I’m not going to finish up taking a look at Instagram whereas I’m on the bathroom and questioning why I can’t really feel my legs 40 minutes later. It’s going to keep away from that kind of factor. Or the compulsive kind of dopamine scratching. Each time you’ve gotten free 30 seconds, leaping into social media, this isn’t good in your skill to focus. It’s not good in your skill to single process.
It’s not good in your psychological well being while you all the time have that escape. I imply, look, I’m telling folks issues they most likely agree with, however maybe haven’t carried out. So, you would do one thing like that. You should utilize an app like Freedom. There’s an app referred to as Freedom that you should utilize to dam sure issues for sure intervals of time. I imply, there are these technical instruments that you should utilize, however on the very base, you’ll be able to’t use extra window dressing technical tips to repair basic issues with aim choice. Large sure is price defending. And core beliefs, if I say no to this individual or one thing dangerous goes to occur and so they’re not going to love me, they’ll cease inviting me to issues.
When you’ve got these and that’s going to what? You need to ask, after which what? After which what? I’m going to finish up alone? Okay, nicely, these are kind of Rubicons you could get snug crossing within the sense that my expertise is, that is additionally Neil’s expertise, he had tons of fears as did I to start with levels. It’s like while you begin to arise for the issues which might be essential in your life, I believe it is a Dr. Seuss quote, but it surely’s like “The individuals who thoughts don’t matter and the individuals who matter don’t thoughts.” You really do a number of pruning in your life that it is best to do anyway. And it’s a forcing operate for that.
Dan Harris: It’s so fascinating. It truly is about braveness in the long run.
Tim Ferriss: It’s. And you may practice that. You possibly can practice that. It’s not one thing you’re born with or with out. That’s one thing by means of really understanding what your fears signify and what’s beneath them. It might be from childhood, it doesn’t essentially need to be, however while you begin to really study them — there’s an train folks might do at present additionally. They will discover a TED Speak on this referred to as fear-setting.
You begin to do fear-setting round these fears, you defang them, and guess what? Abruptly you’ve gotten this factor that others may name braveness, however what it’s, it’s readability. It’s readability across the precise draw back, which is restricted versus the upside of defending these huge yeses over a yr, two or three. And I’ll say to not proceed to beat this useless horse, however with the entire noise that’s right here, however that’s coming with AI, it’s going to be 10, 100, 1,000 instances worse inside two years. When you can single process on essential issues for not even 4 hours a day, two hours a day with out interruption, you’ll be from the attitude of let’s simply say an consideration economic system within the prime one p.c of performers. It’s by no means been simpler and it’s by no means been tougher in a approach.
Dan Harris: I’m going to lose you in 9 minutes, so I do wish to be sure that I rapidly ask you about Coyote, one other of your tasks. This can be a recreation that you just’ve designed. What’s it and why?
Tim Ferriss: Yeah. So, Coyote, it’s a tiny little card recreation that I designed with a few of my associates at Exploding Kittens, which individuals may acknowledge. They’ve a number of very, extremely popular video games and it’s a enjoyable household recreation. It’s one thing like, in case you might think about charades meets scorching potato meets brain-teaser, one thing that I hope sooner or later I’d really love to do a scientific research on this, but it surely makes you just a bit bit smarter than the individuals who play. It’s a informal card recreation. You possibly can study a couple of minutes. Every recreation lasts about 10 minutes. And the explanation I created it, I all the time wished to make a recreation, primary, and that is really a superb illustration of a number of the stuff that’s within the guide that’ll come out in 100 years, however folks can apply it at present, which is I select tasks based mostly on which tasks will enable me to win even when they fail.
What does that imply? I assume that any mission might fail for causes completely exterior of my management. It’s occurred earlier than, it’ll occur once more, occurs to folks day-after-day. So, how am I then selecting issues to decide to? Effectively, usually I’m doing all these two-week experiments on varied issues just like the weight loss program and this, that and the opposite factor. With tasks, it’s like a six-month dedication. I’m taking a look at a six to 12 month mission the place I actually go all in. By the best way, that makes it simpler to say no to issues while you’re doing a dash versus a really sluggish strolling marathon. So, I’m committing to one thing that I believe will likely be six to 12 months and I’m optimizing for what I’ll study, the density of studying and likewise the relationships that I’ll deepen or develop.
So, it might be with new folks, might be with folks I already know, with the assumption that these relationships and people expertise or data will transcend that mission even when the general public hates it, even when in my case, for example, China tariffs for a recreation that’s bought for $9 or $10 coming from China, that simply kills the economics. Not that this was ever a moneymaking factor for me, but it surely’s like there are issues that got here up that made this immediately a lot tougher from a enterprise perspective. And thank God I checked these different packing containers as a result of happily it’s obtained 9.7 or 9.8 stars on Amazon and it’s out there in all places. It’s doing rather well. However what I actually care about is like Elan Lee, who’s the co-founder and CEO of Exploding Kittens has turn out to be a brilliant shut buddy. He was a superb buddy beforehand, we’re even nearer now. This man’s one of the wonderful polymaths I’ve ever met in my life. Superior, hilarious man.
And I’ve discovered a lot about mass retail, the Walmarts, Targets and so forth. I’ve discovered a lot about how it’s a must to play the politics and the Recreation of Thrones with that. I’ve discovered about abroad manufacturing, I’ve discovered about, you title it, proper? I’ve discovered a lot and people had been the explanations for me choosing this. And in case you have a look at, for example, there’s a weblog publish folks can discover without cost, angel investing, like investing in early stage firms, which is like 90% of my internet price, which I began nicely earlier than I might “afford it.” There’s a weblog publish referred to as “Making a Actual World MBA,” which explains sort of how I approached it, which was the identical approach I approached this, studying and relationships that I believe will transcend that mission and snowball over time in order that it’s very arduous to lose long run.
However coming again to the sport itself, in case you’ve obtained children in-between the ages of, let’s say, it says 10 on the field, however actually it’s sort of like age eight. In case your children are fairly sensible, like age 15, that is sort of a no brainer. The sport works actually, rather well. Adults additionally actually prefer it. So, it’s not only for children, however in case you’ve obtained some children round or adults who don’t care being a bit of goofy, then I believe it’s a extremely easy, enjoyable recreation that hopefully does one thing cognitive for folk as nicely. That was sort of the aim. Coyote recreation. You will discover it in all places.
Dan Harris: It’s all the time an unlimited pleasure to speak to you, Tim. And I do know you say no to most shit, so thanks for saying sure to this.
Tim Ferriss: Yeah, I like what you do, man. I like what you do. One in all my very shut associates who’s a professor at a really well-respected college had pains in his physique, this simply horrible, pervasive ache in joints in his physique for years and years. Began utilizing 10% Happier, meditating day-after-day. And it was like growth, inside 4 weeks, pains went away, loopy. I’ve some theories on that. I believe it’s really is likely to be synchronized respiration and vagus nerve stimulation, however that’s a separate dialog. And I simply assume you’re very considerate and also you do a number of good on this planet, and I simply take pleasure in hanging out. So, it’s all the time a pleasure to attach.
Dan Harris: Thanks. I actually recognize that. Immensely really.
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WHAT YOU’RE WELCOME TO DO: You’re welcome to share the beneath transcript (as much as 500 phrases however no more) in media articles (e.g., The New York Occasions, LA Occasions, The Guardian), in your private web site, in a non-commercial article or weblog publish (e.g., Medium), and/or on a private social media account for non-commercial functions, offered that you just embody attribution to “The Tim Ferriss Present” and hyperlink again to the tim.weblog/podcast URL. For the sake of readability, media shops with promoting fashions are permitted to make use of excerpts from the transcript per the above.
WHAT IS NOT ALLOWED: Nobody is allowed to repeat any portion of the podcast content material or use Tim Ferriss’ title, picture or likeness for any industrial goal or use, together with with out limitation inclusion in any books, e-books, guide summaries or synopses, or on a industrial web site or social media website (e.g., Fb, Twitter, Instagram, and so forth.) that provides or promotes your or one other’s services or products. For the sake of readability, media shops are permitted to make use of pictures of Tim Ferriss from the media room on tim.weblog or (clearly) license pictures of Tim Ferriss from Getty Photographs, and so forth.